Sprechen Sie Hellcat?

"William Byrd" (thedriver) 08/22/2014 at 15:04 • Filed to: None

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Ok, fine. We'll write about the Dodge Hellcat variants. I mean I suppose it is fairly significant when a major automaker unveils a 707 horsepower !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . That's 7.1414 (repeating) Toyota Prius Cs. But will it sway buyers from more expensive German super sedans?

I'll admit, I want a new BMW M5. I have wanted one ever since the E39. I wouldn't kick an E63 AMG Mercedes out of my garage either. However, according to Edmunds, the average price paid for a new M5 is !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . The average price of the latest E-Class E63 AMG S-Model rings in at even more. So I went looking for alternatives.

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If you want a big V8, you could save $30,000 – $40,000 and get a new Cadillac CTS-V. That gets you a 6.2L, 556-horsepower supercharged V8 which should do the trick. That's as near as it makes no difference the same (or more) output than the Bimmer and Merc make. Ah, but its a heavy American barge right? Not really. At 4204 lbs. she isn't a featherweight, but that's the better part of 200lbs lighter the dynamic German duo above. And you get a six-speed manual and rear-wheel drive standard. No fancy AWD systems that won't let you do a burnout without pulling a fuse. Buy now and you'll get the previous generation body-style, but an even prettier V is coming based on the new CTS, which is quite a looker.

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But what if you can't swing $60K for a new super sedan? Well you can get a low mileage (under 50K) CTS-V in the mid $30K range. But you want something that hasn't been molested by anyone trying to top their buddy by doing the longest burnout. Well keep an eye, and an ear, out for Dodge because they are doing some wonderful things. And I say that as a Ford guy.

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Drop another $20K and you can get into a new Charger SRT-8. You'll have to make due with 470 horsepower from its 6.4L V8. That's 70-100 less than the CTS-V, M5 and E63 but its less than half the price. But it lacks the German refinement and image you say? Perhaps, but Chrysler has improved over the years and I was fairly impressed at the last "expensive" Dodge/Jeep I sat in. Besides, if you are reading this, you like fast cars with big engines.

Oh yeah, big engines? That brings us back to the Hellcat. Say it with me, seven hundred and seven horsepower . Two hundred and four miles per hour . Egad. No manual transmission, but you can drop two doors and get a manual equipped Challenger Hellcat with the same output.

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Pricing hasn't been released, but an educated guess is probably around $60K. Saying that it's a lot of car for the money is an understatement. But there's the image issue, will German car buyers really leave BMW, MB, and Audi for something like this Dodge? Chrysler, and its Italian masters, have done something truly ludicrous. They have built a halo car out of a sedan. Sure, they have the Viper, but its fanciful, the stuff of posters. It doesn't necessarily give the average car buyer something attainable.

But this, this is different. the Hellcat is a gamble, but will likely see low production numbers so its not that much of a risk. We think it could work, but there will be a lot of folks to convince first. What do you say internet? No way you'd been seen in that American POS? Or heck yeah, I'll take a red Hellcat. I'm in. Well writing doesn't pay that well, so maybe in a few years when used Hellcats show up under $40K.

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For Sweden > William Byrd 08/22/2014 at 15:07

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But the Charger is German on the inside...

heliochrome85 > William Byrd 08/22/2014 at 15:10

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The Hellcat is just a motor strapped to a mediocre interior and exterior. Premium shoppers looking at the M5 are likely going to walk right past this. If for nothing else, the dealer experience.

William Byrd > For Sweden 08/22/2014 at 15:11

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Sheiza!

True, the LX platform has some S-class and E-class components. Makes it all the more reasonable as an alternative to the German sedans, no?

thedevilinside > William Byrd 08/22/2014 at 15:13

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The volume sales view I see is this isn't really a competitor for the German Luxury cars. I think the Hellcat is going to appeal to a small audience. While I see the performance value, I think those who look at E63 AMG, etc aren't looking as much for that.

heliochrome85 > For Sweden 08/22/2014 at 15:13

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You mean chinese.

For Sweden > heliochrome85 08/22/2014 at 15:14

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...?

William Byrd > thedevilinside 08/22/2014 at 15:14

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Agreed, that's why I mentioned it's almost a halo car for Chrysler in that sense. I'll admit, I shopped for SRT-8 Chargers after the Hellcat came out. If it helps them move less expensive vehicles, it worked.

heliochrome85 > For Sweden 08/22/2014 at 15:15

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Very little if anything is left of the Daimler parts bin in the current charger interior. Most of it is shared with the rest of Fiat and Chrysler. Sit in one and then sit in a Mercedes. The difference is night and day.

William Byrd > heliochrome85 08/22/2014 at 15:15

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Personally I wouldn't pay twice as much for a "dealership experience" but I get your point. I'm pretty sure they upgraded more than the engine though.

For Sweden > heliochrome85 08/22/2014 at 15:16

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Implying interiors matter on muscle cars

Nibbles > heliochrome85 08/22/2014 at 15:16

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The Hellcats are just motors strapped to something that will keep you mostly intact when you inevitably pin it against a tree. That's all.

That's Dodge.

PanchoVilleneuve ST > William Byrd 08/22/2014 at 15:17

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The Hellcats are the first American cars I've seen in a LONG time where no matter what kinda cars you're into, you just gotta admit, DAAAMMNNNN.

There is a point where the car transcends what it is, thanks to the numbers generated. The Hellcats are the best numbers generators this country has produced in ages. Especially the Charger. The 4 doors make it ridiculous and wonderful. That's the one I want, and the one I suspect everyone wants. The Challenger doesn't seem as nuts, being a sporty 2-door, but the Charger is a big boat of a sedan. And yet, they made it that holy fuck fast with a liberal application of brute force.

The Hellcats are exactly what Chrysler needed to change perception. Their post-FIAT cars are good cars, there's no doubt about it, but all the "imported from Detroit" bullshit in the world won't convince anybody that MOPAR is back. A 204 mile an hour full-size sedan will. It makes no logical sense from a business standpoint. Sane minds would say to focus 100% of Chrysler's attention on cheap, efficient mainstream models. Boring cars that normal boring people buy. The Hellcats, on the other hand, are the opposite. They are the ultimate factory hot rods. They shoot right past the boring, practical part of our brains and speak directly to the soul.

They are a great test of character. You look at people who drive sedans that cost ~60 grand. You know how you find the boring ones? The ones who were able to ignore their primal impulses that said TWO HUNDRED AND FOUR MILES AN HOUR! over and over again.

yamahog > heliochrome85 08/22/2014 at 15:17

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By "current," do you mean 2014 or 2015?

William Byrd > heliochrome85 08/22/2014 at 15:17

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He's talking about the LX Platform ...

Built during the Daimler-Chrysler days, E-class and S-class bits in there.

oldirtybootz > William Byrd 08/22/2014 at 15:18

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$60k is not that far off from what SRT customers are already paying for vehicles that are inferior to their competitors. I see no reason why many SRT buyers wont just step up to a Hellcat rather than build up a standard car as many seem to do. We've had customers trade their 6.1 Hemis on 6.4s and still ask when the Hellcat is coming out.

heliochrome85 > William Byrd 08/22/2014 at 15:19

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And I'm not saying you should. Im saying there is more to first class than just the complementary champaign. The M5 and E63 cost as much as they do due to the engineering under the skin, the premium quality of the parts used, and the overall ownership experience. They are in a different class than the Hellcat, largely because Chrysler and Dodge have the same stock interior built to meet the 24k starting price point for the base models, with a few key upgrades. I tested out a 58k Chrysler SRT8 a year ago when I was last shopping. The console trim deformed under light pressure, and all the eye could see was hard plastic. 58k. The Hellcat, while monstrously impressive, is still a charger.

yamahog > heliochrome85 08/22/2014 at 15:19

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Boring, status-obsessed, un-American shoppers looking at the M5 are likely going to walk right past this.

FTFY ;)

William Byrd > PanchoVilleneuve ST 08/22/2014 at 15:19

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Exactly. It's a halo sedan. You can build a Viper to go on a poster, and it's all well and good. But it never made me go "You know what, I want a Dodge"! Whereas the Hellcat comes out, and as a Ford guy I went "hmm, so they have that SRT-8 Charger...".

heliochrome85 > For Sweden 08/22/2014 at 15:20

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If you are going to call it a M5 fighter, it needs to.

heliochrome85 > yamahog 08/22/2014 at 15:20

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Build me a car to lust for, and Ill spend my money. The new C7, and Zo6? sure. This? Pass.

heliochrome85 > yamahog 08/22/2014 at 15:21

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2014. I have not sat in a 2015.

PanchoVilleneuve ST > William Byrd 08/22/2014 at 15:21

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Not even things that would scare enthusiasts off, like the lack of a manual, matter, because POOOOWWWWWWAAAAAAAAA!

You can either row your own or have roughly all the horsepower known to science. I'd have a hard time choosing the former.

William Byrd > heliochrome85 08/22/2014 at 15:21

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True, but it goes 204mph. It may deform and you may die at 204mph but it's a hell of a thing. And it's $60,000. Seems good value for money regardless. So while you may have a point that MB and BMW shoppers may not take notice (although I did, and as I stated, I want an M5), I think generally speaking, others will.

For Sweden > heliochrome85 08/22/2014 at 15:22

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Wars are not fought in the general's wood-paneled office.

William Byrd > PanchoVilleneuve ST 08/22/2014 at 15:23

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Admittedly I'd want it with a manual if for no other reason that you could rev at other people to scare them easier. Shifting an auto up to "N" is sort of lame. haha

But yes, if I saw a used Hellcat under $40K in a few years...uh hello there!

yamahog > oldirtybootz 08/22/2014 at 15:23

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There's a guy who hangs out on Woodward with a Charger SRT-8 and a Grand Cherokee SRT-8 (he autocrosses it and everything!). Those SRT customers are NUTS about these things in the best way, and I'm sure a lot of them are already bothering their dealers.

heliochrome85 > William Byrd 08/22/2014 at 15:24

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Wanting isn't the same as buying.

heliochrome85 > For Sweden 08/22/2014 at 15:26

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for 60k, I'm expecting more than the interior from a 38k R/T model.

DisplacementForDayz, ironically lusts after a Honda Grom > heliochrome85 08/22/2014 at 15:26

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Someone has clearly been binge drinking the bimmer kool-aid.

William Byrd > heliochrome85 08/22/2014 at 15:28

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Well, I'm 37 and do pretty well (just differentiating from the 15 year old pining for a $100K car) and if I wanted a big car payment, I could indulge in an M5. Just not sure I would, as much as I like it. Wheres, as 2 year old SRT-8 with 470hp for $35K, maybe. Interior and dealership experience be damned.

For Sweden > heliochrome85 08/22/2014 at 15:28

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You're paying for 707 horsepower.

oldirtybootz > yamahog 08/22/2014 at 15:30

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Exactly. Current owners will be the ones buying the majority of these. SRT owners love their cars.

We have one customer who has a new Viper and a twin turbo 700+ WHP Grand Cherokee SRT8. He also has a Stingray.

yamahog > heliochrome85 08/22/2014 at 15:30

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Fine, more for us unrefined heathen hillbillies, we're just gonna rip out the interior and go drag racin anyway! *burnouts*

...come to think of it, this may be an actual concern at SRT.

heliochrome85 > William Byrd 08/22/2014 at 15:31

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fair point. My whole argument against these cars, is that I don't see the development extending beyond the engine bay. That means, to me, its little more than a souped up hemi. Do you genuinely think this thing is as safe at speed as its german counterparts? The M5 and E63 were developed to function on the autobahn all day. This, not so much.

heliochrome85 > For Sweden 08/22/2014 at 15:31

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there are cheaper ways to getting to 707 hp.

yamahog > heliochrome85 08/22/2014 at 15:34

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IMO, the 15 is a huge improvement (sat in both 14 Chargers and Challengers), but obviously that's subjective.

heliochrome85 > yamahog 08/22/2014 at 15:34

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LOL. Hellcat SUPERLEGGARA

heliochrome85 > yamahog 08/22/2014 at 15:36

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Ill defer to your judgement. Ultimately, Im happy to see Dodge make cars like this. Something to put people back to work over. Something to make company spirits improve. I just get tired of the often relentless fanboyism over the specs. There are more to cars than the spec sheet.

asindhidude > PanchoVilleneuve ST 08/22/2014 at 15:37

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i agree. i hope that m5 buyers keep buying m5s, but hopefully someone looking at a loaded 528 will realise that a hellcat is a financial equivalent

BigBlock440 > heliochrome85 08/22/2014 at 15:40

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For 100K, I'm expecting more the power out of a 40K Chevy...

PanchoVilleneuve ST > asindhidude 08/22/2014 at 15:47

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This kind of thinking is what got me into a Focus ST. I was looking at an FR-S when I noticed for the same money, I could get a car with 50 more horses that is just as tail-happy.

William Byrd > heliochrome85 08/22/2014 at 15:48

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I don't know, this wasn't built in a shed. This was built by a company that also houses Ferrari, Maserati, etc. If for no other reason then they don't want to get sued, I bet there is more engineering in this than you think.

C to the J > heliochrome85 08/25/2014 at 17:46

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Damn man, how about take your nose out of the sky for a few minutes and breathe the same air as the rest of us.

I think BMW have excessively boring interiors. Mercedes are just plain boring all around.

And of course the dash trim flexes. More than likely a conscious decision so that in the case of an accident you don't have your face impaled by a bunch of metal and wood designed to look pretty.